MASONS!!!!

[datank]

dictionary.com

cult (klt)n.
   1.   1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
         2. The followers of such a religion or sect.
   2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
   3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
   4. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
   5.  1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
         2. The object of such devotion.
   6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

In the OT we have many different examples of cultic language and laws (mostly found in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy).

For instance Ex. 23.17 "3 times a year all the men are to appear before the Sovereign LORD."  The feasts of the OT, and of the NT can be considered cultic.  Especially the laws about who can enter the Temple, and how they purify themselves (Leviticus 8 is the commissioning of Aaron and family, which also happens to be one of the bloodiest books in the Bible in my opinion).  Basically the litergy that we follow at church is a cultic activity.  It is an activity that binds us into a group of like believers.  A cult.

Also keep in mind that for first 300 or so years of Christianity.  Christianity was a cult by contemporary definition.  It was an illegal religion.  They wouldn't offer prayers for the protection of Ceaser, they wouldn't pray to the same gods.  They wouldn't even acknowledge that they were Jews (which they for to the Roman population they were, since visually there was little if no difference between them).  The religion was illegal.  The catechumate (introductorary period) served many different purposes.  First it allowed new believers to have an intimate knowledge of what they were going to do, and secondly it allowed them to become a part of the community without being a baptized Christian.

Also keep in mind that although Christianity is now legal in most of the world, it is still a cult in other parts.  For instance more people have died in the last Century in the name of Christ than in all the previous centuries put together.  Just something to put the first and second persecutions under Roman law into perspective.

We are the lucky ones.  We don't have the threat of death because of what we beleive.  We don't have to worry about the ritualistic way that we go about church ending in our deaths.  we don't have to worry about these rituals, this cultic activity, to lead to our demise.  And yet there are many areas in the world where believers do.  The idea of consuming the body and blood of Christ, while doesn't raise eye brows with us, to others that is part of the reason Christians are persecuted.  People still interpret that to mean cannibalism.

Thus we (christians) all participate in cultic activity.

[Newman]

Well all you've really managed to do their is redefine the word "cult" to mean any religion that has been illegal at any point in history, or that is labeled a cult anywhere in the world.  Take Buddhism for example, I would say the majority of people do not consider that a cult per se, but under your definitions you could easily claim it to be a cult (the same with just about all the major "religions").

Which makes the word fairly worthless.

The common meaning (as cited in the *first* definition you listed), covers the more extremist, controlling groups such as Christian Scientists, some illegitimate offshoots of Christianity, all the famous cults we commonly think of with stuff like mass suicide, and so on.  Under that definition, Christianity is not regarded as a "cult", and it's a little sensationalist to claim as such.

Redefine the word all you want, but be clear that your idea of a cult and the typical definition are different.

[PsYcObAlLiStIc]

S&Bs house, known as "The Tomb", was invaded by a student group calling itself "The Order of File & Claw" , on Friday, September 29, 1876 at 8pm. They entered by prying through iron bars then digging through wood and dirt. From this break-in, much of the history of S&B was made public.

In 1856, "the Tomb", a vine-covered, windowless, brown-stone hall was built. Meetings were (are) held there each and every Thursday and Sunday. The invaders of the tomb found in the infamous lodge-room 322, the 'sanctum sanctorium' (most important) of the temple, furnished in red velvet and on the wall a pentagram. There is also a life-size Bones pin inlaid in the black marble floor.

[Hong Kong Phooey]

S&Bs house, known as "The Tomb", was invaded by a student group calling itself "The Order of File & Claw" , on Friday, September 29, 1876 at 8pm. They entered by prying through iron bars then digging through wood and dirt. From this break-in, much of the history of S&B was made public.

In 1856, "the Tomb", a vine-covered, windowless, brown-stone hall was built. Meetings were (are) held there each and every Thursday and Sunday. The invaders of the tomb found in the infamous lodge-room 322, the 'sanctum sanctorium' (most important) of the temple, furnished in red velvet and on the wall a pentagram. There is also a life-size Bones pin inlaid in the black marble floor.

OK..... I'm open to any evidence presented, but if you're going to present eveidence please quote where it came from.  Right now all that is presented in that statement is an unsubstantiated theory.

But to address the statement:....

This secret hall was broken into by a group calling itself 'the Order of File & Claw'??  What does this name mean??  To me it doesn't sound too off base from 'Skull and Bones'.  Sounds like a couple outlandish frat clubs to me.

You did give an exact day and time of the 'break in' which is good, and since Harvard was founded in 1636 this is theoreticaly possible.  http://www.hno.harvard.edu/guide/intro/index.html 

But your statement detracts even further from this being a 'super secret' organization.  I mean, your statement even tells when the meetings are held...e very Thursday and Sunday.  Now... if this is such an ultra secret organization and it's membership is 'secret', then why is it that the membership roster is listed with Harvard and we even know the days in which they meet??  Seems to me if someone wanted to know who was in this organization all they would have to do is look at the member roster or if that wasn't possible camp outside the hall and watch everyone go in.

OK.... enough of this for me.  I'd suggest two things:
1.  If someone presents evidence please quote your source, otherwise it's just a statement.
2.  I just realized this is 'thread hijacking', so I wont' post anymore on this here.  It's not my intent to detract from the original post.  So if we want to talk about this further perhaps a new thread should be started.

 

*edit*
p.s.  I don't know if this is 'hijacking' seeing as how you started this thread.   
So I guess what happens here is your decision 

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Here's an interesting article: http://www.skullandcrossbones.org/articles/skullandbones.htm
The reason I reference it is that it's apparently written by a Yale graduate.

Yes the article does contribute a lot to substantiate some of the statements on this organization, but it also falls short of presenting evidence of pentagrams and devil worship.  Quite the contrary, the interior has been described as 'funny spooky' and 'not glamorous by any means, and as being 'like a college dorm room' with socks under the couch...etc..

[|CoR| Deacon]

Guys, can we please keep this discussion on topic.

This is not a discussion about secret societies.

This is a discussion about Masonry:

1) Is it a religion in and of itself?
2) Are its teaching consistent with the teachings of Christianity?

That said, Masonry has been such a significant part of American culture that it is no surprise that many Christians have been masons.

However, the standard by which we judge something is not, "well, my grandpa did it, and he was a strong Christian, so it must be ok..." Please remember, our grandparents and their grandparents may have been Christians, even strong ones. But that does not mean their discernment was unflawed. I consider my grandparents to be wonderful, fantastic examples of Christ, and yet I have seen them exhibit extreme feet of clay, especially in the area of racism...

Our standard in these discussions is the teaching of the Bible.

One thing that makes evaluating an organization like the Masons is their secrecy and the strict oaths which members are forced to take to keep it. Christians are commanded to share their beliefs, not hide them, I guess this is simply a huge warning sign to me on a personal level.

So, please, re-focus this discussion back onto Masonry.

First, is it a religious system?

Second, if it is a religious system, does it teach and uphold the fundamentals of Scripture? Here's a start:
* That man is in need of reconciliation to his Creator
* That the Creator God of the universe came to earth in the man Jesus Christ to die for a rebellious creation.
* That as a result of Jesus' substitutionary death we can have a personal relationship with Him

Third, if it is not a religious system in and of itself, are its teachings consistent with the teachings of Christianity? ie can a Christian be obedient to Christ and a 'good' Mason at the same time?

[|CoR| Deacon]

Here's an interesting article. It's interesting because it's published by the North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention. Why is this interesting? Because for many many years the SBC was recognized as having an extremely large Masonic membership. But in 1993 a watered down report to the convention, and accepted by the convention, detailed several Masonic teachings which were incompatible with Christianity..

This article explains their conclusions:

A Closer Look At Freemasonry

[|CoR| Deacon]

Another very interesting article....a comparison between the teaching of Freemasonry and the Bible also published by the NAMB

Freemasonry Comparison

[|CoR| Hawkens]

The only way you are going to know for sure if Masons are satanic or not is to join them and see for yourself.

That's why I mentenioned my father being one. Because I'm not planning on becoming a Mason, he's the only valid information I have about the group. Nobody here who's posted has been a Mason so why would I take your word or website posting over his? Fact is....I trust him more that any posting on a website. That's why I mentioned him and it's a very valid reason to do so.

And as far as that last site mentioned. Another example of how every little verse of the bible is micro analized and turned against everything somebody does. Just like in the gothic thread. There is a differance between having a little club and a bit of fun over actually practicing a pagan belief.

[Cupcake]

You know, I often thought about joining them just to see what it's like.  To see if they are as bad as everybody said (of course I said the same thing about drugs and that got me nowhere fast).  Something keeps me from doing it.  Something is eerie about them.  Something inside tells me not to join because it would mean trouble for me, especially if I spilled their proverbial beans. 

[|CoR| Crutch]

Yeah, then you would be taking a shower one day, and John Kerry attacks you with a knife! Or George Bush pulls you under your truck for a Bush Beat down Texas style for breaking the code. 

 

[PsYcObAlLiStIc]

theres a masonry church right by my house and im kind off interested in going my friend said he would go with me so if i get to go i will tell you guys what its like

[|CoR| Legolas]

Are you getting that confused with Mormon?

[TheVoid]

I know this post is over 2 years old and I would like to point something out.  Moderators, if a new topic needs to be made, I will abide.

I am a new recruit to the CoR Clan, via Day of Defeat, I am Christian, saved by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ through my professing publicly in 1996.  I was raised Catholic, converted to Mormonism and then converted to Pentecostal.  I am now in search of a new church, considering my options, keeping my mind, heart and soul open through prayer asking for truth and prosperity. 

I am a Freemason.  I am a Master Mason, serving as an officer at my lodge.  I am also a Royal Arch Mason, Royal and Select Master Mason and I am a Sir Knight, Knight Templar, which constitute the York Rite, serving as officer in each of the three groups.  My wife and I are also members of the Order of the Eastern Star. 

My ingame spray is that of the York Rite which shows emblems of that of the 'Blue Lodge' and York Rite bodies.  I am willing to discuss my affiliation to the best of my ability.

Each of the three faiths I belonged to where anti-masonic groups, which I believed at the time, because I didn't think they would attempt to steer me in the wrong direction.  Each faith group has their reasons, which some of you may already know and I will touch briefly on the gist.  Catholics, dating back to the 1300s, through pressure from the King of France on the Pope, were noticing the tax breaks and other various financial stays were becoming too much for the King to bear.  Building a large debt to the Templars (which Freemasonry traces its roots and beyond), the King and the Pope decided to exact an extreme measure to bring the Knights Templar down by routing, torturing, murdering and all sorts of horrible concepts.  This occurred on Friday the 13th, a day that will forever live in infamy on the minds of all due to the unlucky nature of the day.  The Mormons, which use to almost all belonged to Freemasonry until the mid 1800s, until a terrible situation arised in the town of Navoo, Illinois, where two Mormons, both members of the Lodge, where accused of rigging an election.  While they were in custody, they were murdered by a lynchmob.  Due to the lack of protection these men got and obviously other unknown issues, the Mormons demitted from the lodge enmasse and instituted a bar on Mormon members to belong to Freemasonry.  As far as the Pentecostal and this includes the rest of the anti-masonic groups, purely based off of the rumors over the centuries, stemming from the Catholic Faith primarily, spread propaganda which is baseless.

I know after strong deliberation and prayer, I know that Freemasonry in no way intercedes with my salvation Jesus Christ gave me when he died on the cross.

I know after belonging to this Fraternity, it is in no way a religion, a cult or group of evil men or women, attempting to circumvent God's plan or Jesus Christ's ability to save.

When words are lost through translation, God gave us his word, to be used with solid faith and comitted prayer.  To help combat Satan and his attempts to destroy Jesus's perfection.

What am I saying?  I am saying that the same tactics to destroy Freemasonry, are the same tactics Satan uses to confuse heavenbound souls.  Do I equate Freemasonry as a plan of salvation?, a resounding No.  The only way unto the Father is through Jesus Christ.  Freemasonry was designed by those who believe in something better than themselves.  Understand the timeframe which this fraternity was instituted into what it is today, 1717.  Although Freemasonry is from time immemorial and can be dated back to near the Garden of Eden time, which is pre 4000BC, before the Book of Job was to have taken place.  It has all to do with the glory of God and is not a religion and Satan hates that another reenforcement exists where hatred is silenced, where people can come together, differences aside, combat the issues that tear away at the fabric of faith, friendship and family.

I know a fellow, he is a Messianic Jew, he speaks against Freemasonry.  He also speaks against Hospitals and Government.  He claims to know Jesus Christ and his word.  I asked him, who protects you, he replied, Jesus, he sends angels to protect him.  I asked him if he was so blind from his own egotistical salvation that he failed to notice that the Lord blesses us with his grace through Hospitals and those groups who are here to help.

I use to think that Satan works in the most obscure ways, he leads you to believe something is good, to get you in his grapple hold and take you down with him.  This thought process actually IS Satan's work. 

Faith, Hope and Charity are the tenets of Freemasonry.  I do God's work, helping the infirm, helping those in need.  I will continue to do so until God calls me to my judgement, where I will stand a just and upright man.

I will continue to uphold my obligations and especially the one where I promised to protect those of the Christian faith.  All of you, even those who think I worship my Fraternity above Jesus Christ.

To those of you who don't know, a Master Mason, is the highest degree one can attain, serving their lodge, region, or state at varying levels.  For those who think that only a 33rd Degree Scottish Rite mason knows the 'truth' is mistaken.  Although honorable, the service one would have to comit to, to attain this degree (I know quite a few of them and they are Christian).  As a matter of fact, everyone I know that is a Freemason, minus one fellow who practices Judaism, is a Christian, multiple pastor's of churchs and other active roles within their church.  These fine men, not only talk the talk, they walk the walk, that of a Christian.

I will sum this up, first, God Bless what is being done here, through faith in Jesus, people can come together here in his name and actually enjoy gaming and salvation.  I hold no ill feelings to those who have said opposing points or to those that may come.  I ask that you take the same Christian principles that I have when considering the matter at hand. 

Also, Freemasonry use to have a firm no recruiting policy, now it is actually encouraged to discuss the wonderful things that can be done.  It use to be 2B1 ASK1 motto, now we can ask, which technically it was back then too but people like to sometimes make things appear more than what they are.

Finally, I would also like to add, that I am happy to see that atleast one person was able to benefit from Freemasonry, pertaining to the child who went to a Shriner's hospital, I pray that the child was made whole, through Jesus Christ's benevolence.

Sorry for any type-o's, pretty tired, took me a while to generate this post!

God Bless!

[_fireangel_]

Response to Deacons post (which was very well put). Especially the mention of "One thing that makes evaluating an organization like the Masons is their secrecy and the strict oaths which members are forced to take to keep it. Christians are commanded to share their beliefs, not hide them, I guess this is simply a huge warning sign to me on a personal level". I can't find the scipture off hand, but I specially remember one part of the Bible mentioning this... that secret organizations and those involving blood oaths are an abomination to God (I would note this as very important in our walk with Christ). Masons match directly up to this definition.

1.) Masonry is ITS own system (Satanic)... fact.
2.) Mason teachings AREN'T Christian... fact.

I would also strongly caution the few posts I have read... saying to become a mason to find out... NO! The fact is mason roots are led through our enemy, just because you can't see the evil structure doesn't mean it isn't there. As I have always advised, the enemy doesn't always wear a bright neon sign... he is cunning and stealthy like the word says. Don't be fooled by this group, follow God and his ways with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind!

[|CoR| Tiny Zombie Muncher]

Hello all,

My Grandfather was a Mason.
He was the kindest person I've ever known.
His words braught comfort to a persons life.
He never raised his voice.
He loved everyone.
And he made you laugh even if you were dieing.
I beleive the Masons are normal everyday people that are just in a "club".
Other people question them because they dont like talking about their group.
So what happends, imagination.
I beleive people cant handle secrets so they make things up in place of them.
I can garuntee that they are not Satanic.
You shouldnt always beleive what people tell you sometimes or what you see on TV.
Masons are good wholesome fella's that just wanna have a "club".
It's like when you were a kid guys cmon'.
Remeber when you and your buddies made a "club" and you had to have a secret handshake and no girls were aloud.
Thats pretty much what they are.

[BlindWolf]

The word cult has been incorrectly used  in this thread.

here are simplified definitions that may or may not be useful.

Cult = fringe religious group based off of Christianity or Judaism
Mormonism is a cult and prior to being generally accepted some of the mainstream denominations were also considered cults.   

Occult = fringe religious group based off of other than Christianity or Judaism (IE devil worship or other 'nether gods')   

Paganism is not necessarily included in either of these though it can be occultic in some cases.

[Corvette]

From Merriam-Webster:

1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual  ; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious  ; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator <health cults>
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book)  ; especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

From Dictionary.com

–noun
1.    a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.    an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.    the object of such devotion.
4.    a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.    Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.    a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7.    the members of such a religion or sect.
8.    any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.

Freemasonry definitely falls within the definition of a cult.

[BlindWolf]

From Merriam-Webster:

...

Freemasonry definitely falls within the definition of a cult.

Yeah and if you ever discuss freemasonry with a lower level member they think they are a Christian group. 

As to what they really are well, I have never talked to anyone thats ranking before but I think they are a tad ODD at any level but like other people have said there are some kind and generous types in the group; it becomes difficult to cast stones with out knowledge.

Oh and the simplified definition is from a resource book out of a seminary not too far from my home. Clearly though it is dated, it simplifies the differences in the 2 words such that they not confused.

[datank]

Technically Christianity also fits into the definition of a cult... Especially early Christianity.

Does anyone here own or was given a Masonic Bible?  My folks have my grandfather's.  It's an NIV.  And if I still lived at home I'd spend some time reading the introduction to form my own opinion of Masonic beliefs.

[Corvette]

The former Minister of Music at my church was a Mason who quit after delving deeper into their belief.  I base my opinion on his experience.

[|CoR| Draken]

I have a couple family members that became Freemasons. One being my grandfather (who died a few years ago now). I know that when I was a bit younger it caused a lot of controversy in my family and the kids weren't really told anything because we obviously wouldn't understand.
I don't know much for fact, but I did manage to pick up bits and pieces of information about the Freemasons through conversations with my parents in the recent years as well as some research of my own.
I know that they can identify each other outside of the meetings by secret handshakes and the ring they wear (looks a bit like this: http://www.engravingarts.net/sales/LVXcloseup.jpg )
I know they have many different levels or ranks within the organisation and as you get higher in the ranks you find out more and more about it. When you join there is also a very strange ceremony in which there are many symbols. Again I don't know anything for sure but it would be things such as wearing special clothing items or I believe you also get escorted into the room with a blindfold on, or a bag on your head or something. There are very long speeches read out containing many metaphors and hidden meanings. There are oaths that must be sworn by the newcomer which can contain curses that are put over the newcomer if they speak about what happens inside the Lodge meetings to anyone who isn't a Mason. These can be spiritual soul ties that curse the comer's family (future generations included).
The Masons accept anyone believing in 'God' not preferring any religion to another although they claim to be Christian, they don't often mention Jesus Christ's name - which to me suggests they aren't Christian at all. Christianity is ALWAYS about Christ, and if the focus isn't on Him, then how can it be Christian? Also, Christianity isn't a secret, Jesus told us to go out and spread the word, not start a club where you can only find out if you join :S

My grandfather refused to talk about it to anyone which caused a lot of trouble. He did say that it was Christian though.

Don't take anything I say here as fact because these are just things I have heard and picked up along the way. As for Christians joining something that seems so evil to a lot of people, I think the intrigue and secrecy of it all can lure them in and reassuring words from members, 'Oh don't worry about it! It's just tradition, we've all done it'.
None of my family members are the kind to join a cult that goes against Christianity either, it is quite hard to understand.

And lastly, here is a link I found about a guy who wrote a blog about his initiation to the Freemason Brotherhood, he doesn't go into specifics, but it's still very interesting as well as the comments below.
http://horseshoesandhandgrenades.wordpress.com/2007/01/11/my-initiation-ceremony-into-freemasonry/

I hope this helps some people understand it a bit more and that nobody takes offence,

God Bless you guys

Draken

[|CoR| Crutch]

Wow, a lot has changed in 2 years.

I have done quite a bit of investigating myself.

My great great great grandfather was Nathaniel Green who served beside George Washington to claim our independence.



Note the hand in his coat.




Now lets look at my old man.



Hand not in coat. However, the Masons website calls him one. I have been on a family quest to find out if its true. I pray that it isn't. I would hate to think, one of the most Influential members of my family is burning in hell right now.


It is now my opinion that the Masonic order, is fighting for this new world order. They are pulling the strings of our society, and they are evil from the 30th to the 33rd degree.

They are enemies of America, Democracy, and Christianity.